Formulas & Data:
- Electronics
- Mathematics
- Physics
- RF & Microwaves

Parts Vendors:
- all hand-selected

- Amateur Radio
- Vintage Articles:
- Electronics World
- Popular Electronics
- Radio & TV News
- Radio Craft
- Short Wave Craft
- Wireless World

- Events Calendar
RF Cafe Homepage
Copyright 1999-2015   •−•  ••−•    −•−•  •−  ••−•  •   "RF Cafe" in Morse Code  >> Listen to It <<
- EW & Radar Handbook
- Quizzes       - Software
- App Notes
- Calculators
- Advertise on RF Cafe
- About RF Cafe™
- RF Cafe Shirts & Mugs
- RF Cafe Archives
RF Cafe Book Contest
- RF Cafe on Visit RF Cafe on Facebook Visit RF Cafe on Twitter Visit RF Cafe on LinkedIn
- Tech Humor
- Forums Archive
- Job Board
- Donate to RF Cafe
- Kirt's Cogitations
Custom Search
More than 10,000 searchable pages indexed.
Greetings: There is so much good stuff on RF Cafe that there is no way to list or link to all of it here. Please use the Search box or the Site Map to find what you want - there is a good chance I have it here. Thanks!

How to measure return loss for LNA's designed for -130dBm - RF Cafe Forums

Because of the high maintenance needed to monitor and filter spammers from the RF Cafe Forums, I decided that it would be best to just archive the pages to make all the good information posted in the past available for review. It is unfortunate that the scumbags of the world ruin an otherwise useful venue for people wanting to exchanged useful ideas and views. It seems that the more formal social media like Facebook pretty much dominate this kind of venue anymore anyway, so if you would like to post something on RF Cafe's Facebook page, please do.

Below are all of the forum threads, including all the responses to the original posts.

 Post subject: How to measure return loss for LNA's designed for -130dBm
Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:26 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:50 pm
Posts: 1
Hi there!

I'm trying to find a method or instrument to measure return loss for a GPS front-end which
consist of an LNA that's dynamically controlled with AGC. The front-end of the GPS IC is
designed for around -130dBm and L1 (1.575420Ghz)

The network Analyzer I'm using outputs a signal at -60dBm. That's the lowest it can go without
the signal being overwhelmed by noise. The problem is S11 impedance on the smith chart display
appears almost as a short. The GPS receiver works ok. To me it seems obvious what's happening
here. The network analyzer's relatively large signal is forcing the LNA into compression.??

Also the strong signal is forcing the the AGC to switch the receiver into its low gain mode.
The receiver upon start up monitors the signal strength and chooses either low or high gain
modes. I want to measure the return loss in high gain mode.

So with all that said, anyone have a suggestion as to how I can measure return loss with using
a signal of -130dBm (up to -110dBm would probably be ok too).

Are there any vector network analyzers out there that can do this? Is a special test set needed? How about using a typical spectrum analyzer. I just need return loss, not necessarily the phase information.

Any help on this appreciated!

best regards,

 Post subject: Re: How to measure return loss for LNA's designed for -130dB
Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:29 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:35 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Ramona, CA
There are no Vector Analyzers that have the low end dynamic range sensitivity to make this measurement. I suggest an Agilent PXA that can measure signals down to -174dBm with special processing and calibration to calibrate out ambient thermal noise. Seeing as you want to measure the LNA at it's input operating point of -130dBm, you need to measure down to -150dBm plus your coupler loss to make the 20dB return loss measurement. I suggest using a coupler instead of a bridge. Also you will have to measure this in a shieled RF box to remove all unwanted noise and signals that might interfere with the signal being measured. R&S may also have a Spec An than can measure down that low. Good luck with it.

Sunshine Design Engineering Services

Posted  11/12/2012

Your RF Cafe
Progenitor & Webmaster

Click here to read about RF CafeKirt Blattenberger… single-handedly redefining what an engineering website should be.

View the YouTube RF Cafe Intro Video Carpe Diem!
(Seize the Day!)

5th MOB: My USAF radar shop

Airplanes and Rockets: My personal hobby website

Equine Kingdom: My daughter Sally's horse riding website