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80 MPG Carburetors - RF Cafe Forums

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 Post subject: 80 MPG Carburetors
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:41 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 2:02 pm
Posts: 451
Location: Erie, PA

I just had a phone conversation with a guy regarding the price of oil/gas and the topic turned to some of the stories that used to circulate about garage inventors developing carburetors that got 80 miles per gallon out of a big block Chevy engine, or a home furnace modification that allowed heating an entire home in Maine for an entire winter using only 50 gallons of oil. Mechanic Illustrated and Popular Science and other magazines of the day regularly reported on such inventions. Conspiracy theorists reckoned that Big Oil and Big Auto routinely dispatched their men in trench coats to silence those who might threaten their empires.

While it certainly does seem than in 2005, we should have cars getting better than 50 mpg (other than hybrids), it is difficult to believe that the kinds of shenanigans proposed by the conspiracy theorists would have been unexposed to this day. Does anyone else remember these stories, and if so, do you believe them or think they’re bunk?


- Kirt Blattenberger :smt024
RF Cafe Progenitor & Webmaster

 Post subject:
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:11 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 43
Location: Hampshire UK
I have a Peugeot 406 2.1 litre turbodiesel. Like all modern diesels, it is refined enough that you don't notice its a diesel until it idles.

If I foot it hard, the consumption gets as bad as 40MPG. If I go careful, it can get as good as 48MPG. To get this right, I think we have to figure the fact that a US gallon is not the same as a 8-pint UK gallon. I don't know the record is, but it is bound to be in some feeble vehicle I would struggle to put on (as opposed to get into)!

When a resource gets scarce, the scamsters are out in force. I don't know what its like in US, but here we have the "Sale of Goods Act" which goes a long way to ensure that goods are fit for purpose. A famous advertising slogan here said "It does exactly what it says on the tin!

 Post subject: 80 mpg carb on a Jubig block
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:42 pm 
"Stories" are unreliable and most always unrepeatablle due to the lack of experimental controls. For example, was the storyteller monitoring mileage continuously and reported the maximum MPG observed while decending a hill? Its possible to get 80MPG in a big block that way. The computer doesn't know your car is getting gravity assist. This was one of the ways those old 8 cyl to 4 cyl conversion kits were marketed. You could put a big block on a go-cart with thin tires and observe a huge increase in fuel economy. But these details are never mentioned in "stories"... too easy to prove the B.S.

 Post subject: heard about it
Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:19 pm 
hey, i work in the USAF-- I met a sergeant who recieved the job of doing research to find out if a number of these "stories" were true or not... for military interests.
His research led him across the path of a man who invented such a carbureator that accomplished 50 mpg on a big block chevy 350. He also said that after tests were done etc., (this was in the 60s) the gov't purchased the design and filed it away, never to be seen again.
He also spoke of a number of other such instances, most of which involved oil giants such as Exxon/Mobile paying people off, or simply purchasing the rights to amazing inventions etc. and keeping them under wraps so as not to lose the huge amounts of money that they make every single minute.
Do you know how much they (exxon/mobile, shell, etc.) make in profit every day? how much oil they sell? Oil is used for EVERYTHING.
I don't have any naive ideas about the gov't being so clean and well run to discard the idea that they would sacrifice the environment to achieve a higher GNP by the end of the year. Is it so hard to believe that a giant corporation would do the same?

what about the fact that the 40mpg engine was produced back in the 60s, my honda in the 80s had 350 thousand miles on it and still got better milage than my 2005 hyundai! that car was produced 20 years ago! Are you telling me that technology just stopped and people couldn't figure out how to get better than 40? try finding a new car that is not a hybrid that even gets 40! maybe 1 or 2 even exist!

thanks for reading

 Post subject:
Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:22 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 2:02 pm
Posts: 451
Location: Erie, PA
Greetings erikthehalfabee:

Although I believe it is fully possible that many of the high-mileage carbs and/or fuel injector systems have been hidden away for the benefit of the big oil companies, it is hard to believe that evidence of these long-forgotten items would not have re-surfaced by now. As mentioned earlier, with the freedom of information dissemination available on the Internet and affordable private presses, you would think by now if such inventions did exist, they would be all over the news today.

Furthermore, by now if such breakthrough fuel efficiencies were possible, there would be totally, and radically new designs posted on websites all over. Even if the originator didn't want information made public, the over abundance of leakers worldwide would have made at least something newsworth available.

BTW, my 1996 Mazda Protege routinely get around 38 mpg. It is a 1.4 L powerhouse (not).

Also, I don't believe the 350 was a big block V8; I think the big blocks were started at around 396 CID. My '69 and '72 Camaros both had small block 350s.

- Kirt Blattenberger :smt024
RF Cafe Progenitor & Webmaster

 Post subject: stuff
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 6:09 pm 
you are right about the 350,and also the fact that stuff should have been leaked by now... but how is it that the average mpg for a car has not really increased (not including hybrids) in the last 20 years? And concerning hybrids: my friend bought one just last month. The car (a honda) gets 50mpg at best. That is ridiculous if you ask me. I met a guy who had a prius and after a little modding had the milage up to 70. What is the deal??

 Post subject:
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:04 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 43
Location: Hampshire UK
Mercedes Benz do OK - 59.46 MPG in a E320CDI ... -07-05.asp

Then - Peugeot 407 HDi gets 81.64 MPG average on a long run

Here in UK we have the most expensive fuel in the world, with variously motivated beliefs among those that govern us that it OK to tax personal mobility to the point traffic is reduced to a conscience salving level while at the same time delivering a huge financial bung wrung out of the remainder. More than 70% of our fuel charge is tax! A litre (thats 2.2 pints!) of fuel here costs between 0.96 and 1.04 UK pounds depending on where you are. Diesel is much cheaper to produce, but is then taxed to beyond the price of unleaded on the grounds it is "dirty". In fact, modern diesels produce *less* pollutants than petrol cars.

As for "hybrid" cars, or any other electric variant, I shall only be impressed when the makers can assure us that all the electric component did not start out at some point as fossil fuel burning in some power station somewhere, and was then converted and stored and shoved about with varying efficiency at all stages before it finally ended up heating the brake discs. This sort of stuff represents a bigger contribution to global warming than if we put the fuel in a good engine in the first place.

The whole thing about fuel is the hydrogen in it. It needs to join oxygen to release the energy and go back to water. Unfortunately, in most fuels, the hydrogen is only available locked onto a load of carbons, which will make CO2 as the price of getting joined with oxygen. I guess some futuristic fusion-powered tokomak working hard to split sea water into hydrogen and oxygen so we can have a (dangerous!) personal mobility fuel is how to save the planet. Then again.. is hydrogen any more dangerous than petrol.. ? Hmm.. maybe!

 Post subject:
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:02 pm

 Post subject: Market forces
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:19 am 
Regardingthe discussion of ultra high efficiency automobiles: Since all fuels have a specific energy content, i.e. btu per pound or kilo of fuel, it follows that there is a limit to how much work can be performed by a given quantity of fuel. Even at efficiencies approaching 100%, the claims of urban legend tales of owners being able to drive for weeks at a time are obvious fancy.

More practically, we (collectively) who willingly purchase huge, truck based, vehicles have only ourselves to blame. The auto companies built more of these fuel guzzling behemoths because we bought them. It is easier to raise the price of a larger vehicle by adding superficial luxuries of little substance, meaning it is easier to sell them profitably. R & D is costly, and the payoff comes with large quantity sales of the developed vehicles. If there is little demand for high efficiency vehicles, it is easy to understand why there is little incentive to develop them. Of course the laws of physics apply here as elsewhere; reducing fuel comsumption is best aided by reducing the workload. Lighter vehicles, narrower tires, more aerodynamic bodies all contribute to better economy, as do more conservative driving habits. Being able to make a vehicle lighter yet maintain comfort and safety are serious challenges, as is the conflict between tire adhesion required for safe handling and reduced rolling resistance required for maximum efficiency. Then there are driving habits, perhaps the fairest input of all, as they apply regardless of economic or social background. When gas prices spiked at the end of the past summer I consciously reduced my normal highway cruising speed, immediately improving average fuel consumption by about 10%. If more of us paid more attention to driving habits, watching ahead and making small, incremental adjustments rather than braking and accelerating at high rates, we would all see significant increases in fuel mileage without changing vehicles. I suggest, however, that no one stop breathing while waiting for that day....

 Post subject: Re: Market forces
Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:22 am 

Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:14 am
Posts: 1
What about the possibility of using alcohol fuels, methanol in particular? One of the problems is to find ways to stop governments from controlling our activities always on their terms as if everyone was a child.

 Post subject: 80MPG Carburetors
Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:50 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:07 pm
Posts: 236
Location: London UK
Regarding Methanol power, forget it.
I saw a university survey on energy 2 years ago that calculated we would need to cultivate high ethanol crops on 70% of the land surface of the world just to power the vehicles in existence 2 years ago. With Chinese people demanding autos by the million per week, the demand for land to cultivate rape oil plants would exceed the entire earth's surface.

Hydrogen wrapped up in Boron Hydride or Ammonium Borates will be the winner. You heard it first on this channel.

BTW, someone once showed me a diesel engine used as an agricultural saw-mill driver that you switched over the input to the injectors to a part diesel part water feed. The theory was, once the temperature of the block exceeded a threshold, the water vapour pressure increased the fuel efficiency dramatically.

More logs per gallon


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