Custom Search
Over 10000 Pages Indexed
Your Host
Click here to read about RF CafeKirt
Blattenberger

... single-
handedly
redefining
what an
engineering website
should be.

View the YouTube RF Cafe Intro Video Carpe Diem!
(Seize the Day!)

5CCG (5th MOB):
My USAF radar shop

Hobby & Fun

Airplanes and Rockets:
My personal hobby website

Equine Kingdom:
My daughter Sally's horse
riding business website -
lots of info

•−•  ••−•    −•−•  •−  ••−•  •
RF Cafe Morse Code >Hear It<

Job Board

About RF Cafe©

RF Cafe E-Mail

Please help dumb digital guy w/ FSK - RF Cafe Forums

Because of the high maintenance needed to monitor and filter spammers from the RF Cafe Forums, I decided that it would be best to just archive the pages to make all the good information posted in the past available for review. It is unfortunate that the scumbags of the world ruin an otherwise useful venue for people wanting to exchanged useful ideas and views. It seems that the more formal social media like Facebook pretty much dominate this kind of venue anymore anyway, so if you would like to post something on RF Cafe's Facebook page, please do.

Below are all of the forum threads, including all the responses to the original posts.


wfinnell
Post subject: Please help dumb digital guy w/ FSK Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:24 pm

Lieutenant

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:52 pm
Posts: 3
I am trying to make the receiver portion of a Universal Access Transceiver (UAT). This is an FSK modulated data-link for aircraft. The specifics are as follows:

Frequency 978 MHz, +/- 20 PPM
Delta f/2 +312.5 kHz
-Delta f/2 -312.5 kHz
Modulation Type Continuous Phase FSK
Modulation Rate 1.041667 MBPS
Sensitivity -93 dBm

I know a lot of RF guys and all of them say “you can probably get a chip that does all that”. Or another quote is “They make a chip that does that”. Who is “They”? I have found several FSK/ASK chips that work up to about 920 MHz. I think these are designed for Keyless Entry, Car Alarms, Remote Controls and that sort of thing. It looks to me like I will have to make a circuit out of discrete components. I don’t think this is a big deal but I am not sure how to get started. I think I can handle the gain and filtering portion and I can for sure handle the bit stream once it gets turned into ones and zeros, but I need help with the demodulation. Does anyone have any specific suggestions on how to build this type of circuit? Or can someone point me to a book? I am not too interested in communications theory as I am building a radio to a standard. I would really like a book with circuit ideas.

From the information I have been able to figure out on the web I have two ideas how to do the demodulation. I am guessing I am way off base so any constructive comments are welcome.

First idea:
Filter, amplify, down convert, split then pass each leg through a filter/rectifier and apply each leg to the input of a comparator.

Second idea: (and this is my lame idea)
Filter, amplify, down convert, then square up the signal w/ a comparator. Send the signal into a fast counter and use a CPLD to keep reading the counter to determine the frequency.

Thank you in advance,

Finnell


Top

fred47
Post subject: FSKPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:47 am

General


Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:51 pm
Posts: 104
Hi!
While you might be able to get a chip to do what you want to do, I suspect the market isn't large enough for a specialized part.

You might be able to re-purpose chips for the cellular telephone market, but that's not at all a sure bet. And "consumer" devices have a deservedly bad reputation for being discontinued during the production life of industrial/commercial equipment. Still, you might browse through Qualcomm's offerings.

All of which puts you squarely in the "do it yourself" category.

Generally, the "best" way to demodulate FSK is with a phase-locked loop (PLL). For weak signals, this is best done by a receiver with the following stages:
Filter - amplifier -downconverter (mixer + oscillator) - amplifier - pll - comparator.

Alternatively:
Filter - amplify - quadrature down-convert to DC, apply the two signals to an ADC, and demodulate using DSP.

(This isn't as unthinkable as all that - some of TI's TMS320C2000 series DSP's have multiple high-speed 10-bit ADC's built in, and still don't cost much.)

The front-end filters are critical. In most aircraft, there are several transmitters: voice, transponder, radar, etc. The signal from those must be reduced to the point where the FSK receiver low-noise amplifier doesn't overload. BUT, any loss in that filter adds dB-for-dB to the noise figure: bad news. Given that this isn't a unique system, some manufacturer of surface-acoustic-wave (SAW) filters might actually have one as a stock item.

LNA's are widely available as IC's from companies like RF Micro Devices, Mini-Circuits Labs, and others; and mixers/IF amplifiers are not hard to get. (Motorola used to make some nice ones - but they were discontinued when Mot spun out On Semi, then Freescale Semi.

You might even get a 74HC4046 to do the PLL job (ouch - I'm showing my age! Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain...)

Bear in mind that in the 900 MHz region, "breadboarding" is an art requiring minimal lead length, a good ground plane, and just plain luck, if you don't have experience. Many people just lay out a pcb, and plan on doing at least one revision.

By the way, the methods you mention are classics: the first one is generally referred to as a "discriminator" in the literature - of which there's a lot before PLL's took over. The second one is also a standard - implemented in analog (yes, an "analog counter"!), it's used in high-end audio. So your intuition isn't bad.

Me, if I were going to do the project, I'd take the DSP route - but that has its own challenges - particularly code efficiency.

Good Luck!

Fred


Top

wfinnell
Post subject: Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 1:50 am

Lieutenant

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:52 pm
Posts: 3
Fred,

Thank you for the input. What a great reply! Great news, I like the "do it yourself" category the best. I have about a million more questions for you. I wish I worked with you.

I downloaded a data sheet for the 74HC4046. I will read it and try to figure it out.

I though about trying to use a DSP but I thinking that with a bit rate of over 1 MBPS. I would have to sample at over two million samples per second. Is this correct? I am very comfortable writing low level micro code so if can be done this way that would be good.

Also I would like to thank you for you advice on the SAW filter. I will look into it.

Thanks again,

Bill Finnell


Top

fred47
Post subject: FSKPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:09 am

General


Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:51 pm
Posts: 104
Hi!

Well, maybe a TI '6000 series DSP would be better

If your speed were lower, Analog Devices has a transceiver chip - but it only goes up to 384 kbits/second - not enough. (ADF7025, I think - but you should check their website rather than depend on my ability to remember part numbers accurately...)

What kind of design constraints do you have? Size, power, cost? If cost, is it "cost-per-unit" or "cost-to-first-unit"? (That is, parts cost or development cost).

"You can have it good, fast, and cheap - pick 2..."

I'll try to write more later - but it's already too late.

Good Luck,
Fred


Top

wfinnell
Post subject: Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:14 pm

Lieutenant

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:52 pm
Posts: 3
My target is “good and cheap”. I am paying for development out of pocket so I would like to keep that cost down although I realize nothing is free, especially good tools. And I would like to keep "cost-per-unit" down too so that I can keep the price down. Avionics are relatively expensive so I think I would like to keep parts down in the $100 or $200 range. The good news is I do have time.

Finnell






Posted  11/12/2012
A Disruptive Web Presence

Custom Search
Over 10,000 pages indexed! (none duped or pirated)

Read About RF Cafe
Webmaster: Kirt Blattenberger
    KB3UON

RF Cafe Software

RF Cascade Workbook
RF Cascade Workbook is a very extensive system cascaded component Excel workbook that includes the standard Gain, NF, IP2, IP3, Psat calculations, input & output VSWR, noise BW, min/max tolerance, DC power cauculations, graphing of all RF parameters, and has a graphical block diagram tool. An extensive User's Guide is also included. - Only $35.
RF system analysis including
frequency conversion & filters

RF & EE Symbols Word
RF Stencils for Visio

Product & Service Directory
Personally Selected Manufacturers
RF Cafe T-Shirts & Mugs

RF Cafe Software

Calculator Workbook
RF Workbench
Smith Chart™ for Visio
Smith Chart™ for Excel